Talk:Superman (Canon, Post-Crisis)/Niarobi/@comment-31883133-20200116102558
There are numerous errors with this page and feat analysis. *'Attack Potency' **Zero Hour Vol 1 #0 September 1994 ***'Unknown' | Superman's heat vision made up one fourth of the power capable of creating a universe and causing the defeat of Hal Jordan, who was going to create a new universe, and the attack caused a Big Bang to occur. ****'The Ray, Darkstar (Donna Troy), Captain Atom, and Kyle Rayner absorb the plasma energy universe Parallax created, absorbing most of Parallax's energy.' ****'Superman, Captain Atom, Darkstar, and the Ray send energy into Waverider who channels it into Damage. After, Spectre channels more energy into Damage, and a new Big Bang occurs.' ****'Nothing states that Superman is contributing equally. Captain Atom and Spectre, Universal characters when not holding back, are contributing as well.' **Our Worlds at War | Superman Vol 2 #172 September 2001 ***'3-B' | After being powered up by Kismet, he defeated Imperiex-Prime, who contains the power of and causes a twelve-and-a-third-dimensional Big Bang. ***'Superman Amped with Kismet only breached his armor. It is only with his self destruct that Imperiex is Universal. Prior, he already consumed multiple galaxies. We are aware that one universe in DC has layers of dimension; however, they still follow along one timeline. This is universal or one timeline worth. Hyperversal in DC means to be even stronger than the New God's Godheads.' **'4-B' | Superman fought Imperiex probes for several days, | Adventures of Superman Vol 1 #594 September 2001 ***who can individually fight against and mortally wound Aquaman, ****who was causing the universe to collapse on itself. | JLA Vol 1 #75 January 2003 ***'Imperiex Probes aren't universal. They need a machine just to destroy Galaxies. ' **'Unknown' | Superman tanks an energy attack from Neh-buh-loh/Nebula Man. | JLA Classified Vol 1 #3 March 2005 ***Neh-buh-loh is a living universe. | Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein Vol 1 #4 May 2006 ****Is he a mini universe? Are there any scaling or feats of Nebula Man to support a universal rating? ***All Superman did was punch him once with no visible damage, and take a head laser. Then Nebula Man just left. ***JLA Classified Vol 1 #1 January 2005 ****While Goraiko takes down Grodd, Squire notes that the emissions seem to come from the strange small cube, and match with an old JLA enemy called the Nebula Man. Warmaker One and the Master find the cube, and the Master discovers that the cube is sentient. ****As the city falls, Squire escapes on a jet bike, Grodd destroys Warmaker's shell, and the Master is absorbed into the cube. ****The Master, now possessed by the cube's power, calls itself "Neh-Buh-Loh", and claims to prepare the way for his Queen, and herald the end of this world. ****"Look, I have expanded to fill this human's shape." ****Batman continues to describe it as an infiant universe which the Justice League folled Black Death into. ***JLA Classified Vol 1 #2 February 2005 ****The cube is called an infant universe by Wonder Woman. ****Superman describes it as Attoscopic ****Squire calls the cube universe "attoscopically tiny" ****Neh-Buh-Luh says that he seeded his present form in The Master. This is not his true form. *****"I was simply dormant in a human host until I could gather the strenght to return." | Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. Vol 1 #8 March 2000 ****The Justice League Boom Tubes out of the attoverse. ***JLA Classified Vol 1 #3 March 2005 ****Superman and The Master possessed by Neh-Buh-Luh fight. ****The Neh-Buh-Loh Possessed Master reveals that he is the adult version of Qwewq from the future and the seed planted in him by Black Death turned him evil. Neh-Buh-Loh teleports away, stating that the next time he comes, evil will prevail. ***The Adult Neh-Buh-Loh (3 Billion Years Old) was finally defeated by Frankenstein, who capitalized on the flaw placed by the Ultrmarines, and killed him. | Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein Vol 1 #4 May 2006 ****The flaw inside Qwewq prevents it from growing and replacing the universe. **Infinite Crisis | Infinite Crisis Vol 1 #5 April 2006, Superman Vol 2 #226 April 2006, Action Comics Vol 1 #836 April 2006 , Adventures of Superman Vol 1 #649 April 2006 ***'Low 2-C' | Post-Crisis Superman's fight with Golden Age Superman rewrote timelines and shattered a space-time continuum. It was repeatedly stated that they would destroy each others’ universes and then eventually they started shattering the universe again, and they were again shown rewriting timelines. The DC Comics website confirms that the two were shaking the space-time continuum apart. ***Post-Crisis Superman defeated Superboy-Prime alongside Golden Age Superman, who can withstand a Big Bang, and who was considered on par with the Silver Age Anti-Monitor, who was going to consume the universe and was defeated by Golden Age Superman and Superboy-Prime even after absorbing all energy from the antimatter universe and using it to fight them. ****'Post-Crisis Superman only defeats Superboy after they crashed through a red sun. Superboy outright murders Kal-L.' ***Post-Crisis Superman was shown earlier to stalemate Golden Age Superman, who stalemated Silver Age Superman, who caused a universe to be created following the death of Maaldor, tanked the Big Bang, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the barriers of space and time casually while flying, delivered a blow greater than any force in the universe, and fought against Blackstarr, a woman capable of destroying the universe and attacking him with the gravitational force of the whole universe, who also has absolute control over all aspects of the cosmos and all forces that created the universe. ****'You can't scale Post-Crisis Superman to Silver Age Superman because Golden Age Superman has grown much weaker up to Infinite Crisis.' **Unknown | Superman fights Blackstar, who wields the the energies of the cosmos. | Action Comics Vol 1 #850 July, 2007 **Superman punched back Orion | Death of the New Gods Vol 1 #2 December 2007 ***On New Genesis, the two exchanged punches and are described by Mr, Miracle to be evenly matched. ****'This is a boom tube amped Superman.' ***and fought on par with him on another occasion, | Action Comics Vol 1 #753 April 1999 , Superman: The Man of Tomorrow Vol 1 #13 March 1999 ****'Superman stated after the fight that without his close exposure to the sun that the League might have killed him.' ***who tanked a weapon capable of annihilating the universe, | Jack Kirby's Fourth World Vol 1 #3 May 1997 - #5 ****'Darkseid has pillaged the universe, destroying whole worlds to steal the power of the gods. He amassed power beyond ability to reckon. It is only through the Astro-Force that Orion is able to contain the Oblivion Bomb. This isn't his physical power.' ***as well as having one fifth the power of a Big Bang. ****That's not what happened at all. Fate gathers the five of them together to form a cinque of cosmic power, pooling all of their mystic energies from their links to magic, the source, mystical forces, and a fragment of Anti-Life to hold back the relentless Entity, but even Fate knows this near-omnipotent power can't hold back Anti-Life. With no other options, Doctor Fate is forced to resort to a mystic firebreak, destroying the bridging dimension entirely, stopping the Entity's advance into their own. | Cosmic Odyssey Vol 1 #4 March 1989 **Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds Vol 1 #4 June 2009 ***Superman fought 30th century Mordru who had all of the magical power of a universe. ***Superman fought the Time Trapper, who is a sentient timeline capable of shattering timelines. **Superman has fought Brainiac 13 on three different occasions, *** who can ravage timelines and rewrite the universe. ***Superman Y2K ***https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Y2K/Full?id=85015 ***Superman Vol 2 #154 March 2000 ***https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Adventures-of-Superman-1987/Issue-576?id=29643 ***https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-The-Man-of-Steel-1991/Issue-98?id=35239 ***https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Action-Comics-1938/Issue-763?id=26110 ***Not once in the entire story did Superman visibly damage Brainiac 13, but Brainiac 13 hurt Superman. Not even Superman Blue could do any damage. ***Brainiac 13 is the ravager of timelines and remade the very fabric of the cosmos in his image. | Young Justice: Our Worlds at War August 2001 **Superman fought Monarch, whose quantum power is like the Big Bang, and whose fight with Captain Atom was twisting space and time and causing compressed universes to explode. ***Captain Atom has destroyed and recreated the universe and can freely control it, and was going to destroy several universes, and oneshotted Jenny Quantum, who created a universe, tear apart a reality, contain a universe with her powers, and annihilated the Doctor, who can create a universe, and yet is weaker than Superman. **Superman tanked a punch from Icon, ***who killed Starbreaker, who killed someone who was holding the universe together. | Justice League of America Vol 2 #33 July 2009 ****'Icon doesn't even phase Starbreaker let alone kill him.' ***Superman is stronger than Doctor Sivana, who had the power of Shazam, who fought and stalemated the Invincible Man for several hours, who wields the power of the Big Bang. ****'This is Silver Age Superman' ***Superman survived an encounter with a tesseract swarm. ****'What is a Tesseract Swarm? How is it universal?' ***Superman defeats Black Adam, ****who survived a tesseract expanding in his head. ****Superman stalemates amped Shazam right after fighting Black Adam, who tanked a tesseract bomb in his base. ****'Black Adam isn't Universal' ***Superman fights Wonder Woman on multiple occasions, and even killed her once, **** who can recreate the timeline with her Lasso of Truth, | Wonder Woman Vol 2 #136 August 1998 *****'The Lasso, used to draw truth from the minds of others, is used to turn Wally's memories into living truth.' *****'The panel says that they patched holes in the timeline, not recreated it.' ****can fight the Queen of Fables, *****who is an extra-dimensional embodiment of evil folklore, ******'Extra Dimensional is not Universal by default.' ****and can withstand attacks from 4-D when she's utilising four-dimensional energy. *****Wonder Woman can withstand attacks from 4-D when she's utilising four-dimensional energy. | JLA Vol 1 #25 January 1999 ******"And this is how I fold through the third dimension to draw on the gigantic energies of the fourth" ******I do not believe that she is able to become universal, considering the opponents that she has fought and only drawing on the 4th dimension. She grows, but not to the extant comparable to a boom tube. ******https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lea_Corben_(New_Earth) ***Superman fought the Red King, who can reshape the universe and destroy possibilities containing universes one by one, as well as having created the universe with his dreams. ****'Fourth Parallel (JLA Classified #32-36) where the Red King appears.' ****'"Well the Red King has some feats,like him destroying Possibilities containing a Universe one by one with his Energy blasts,is capable of creating and reshaping the Universe."' ****'That was Doctor Destiny using a Relic gem in the Materioptikon(?) to destroy possibilities, not the Red King through physical abilities. This same relic/setup allowed Darin Proffit to exploit the defects of it to go across billions of different realities and have different lives, weeding it down to three left where three Profitts, now known as the Red King, was vested armor that wasn't based on the gem, but basically the best technology feasibly created by thousands of worlds and millions of lifetimes worth of research to counter the JLA. So it had some limited dimensional manipulation but its full extent is unknown. Point is he doesn't scale to breaking probabilities because that is in a context not seen at the moment. That is only when he is in the Materioptikon and using that stone again, not his own power, to destroy obsolete possibilities and using the realm within it as Batman describes in #36 as a "hub world."' ****'Darin fought that Bizarro Superman in #35, that first blast wasn't a full powered one, it was just one to throw down Supes and potentially kill him. His actual full powered attack killed Superman, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. He also one-shotted MMH after MMH kept spamming illusions. Point is, he outright stomped the league when it came to head-on strength and there was nothing that the JLA could do when it came to brute strength to do anything, and again the reality shattering is through a means he doesn't enjoy whenever he is fighting the JLA.' ****'In #36, Flash states Superman wouldn't be able to keep up with Red King, and Red King hadn't even used his full power yet. When he actually starts fighting, he easily defeats GL and MMH and his largest fuckup was absorbing one of the alternate Red Kings who had became a good guy which corrupted his mind and let him fall into the JLA's trap and lose. And yes, Superman only managed to punch him off guard to BFR him.' ****'The only possible scalable feat here is that Wonder Woman destroyed this Gem, but we don't know if it's durability scales to its power potential, especially since it's stated to be useless outside its hub world.' ****'So basically all the reality destruction is based on a gem relic that only works and is really useful in its hubworld and Red King's actual powers are all earth-based with some hax limitedly shown like dimensional manipulation. He still absolutely stomped the JLA and is far above them. Superman shouldn't at all scale to any probability destruction unless you argue WW destroying the gem could scale but I don't think there is any proof its actual durability scales.' ***Superman fought and overwhelmed the Kryptonian God Cythonna, who warred for a long time against the Kryptonian God Rao, who created the universe. ****'The scaling in The Last God of Krypton is weak, and Superman only had a standing chance when he as in the Sun which he grew power from and she was weakened by. Her true form still stomped him even when weakened in the Sun and he was in the Sun.' ***Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time, and then defeated the embodiment of his own Death, who caused the universe to compress on Superman, only for him to overcome it. | Superman: Where Is Thy Sting? January 2001 ****'This was all a dream and mind manipulation. ' ***Superman tanked Aztek's self-destruction of four-dimensional energy. ****'4th Dimensional Energy is not Universal by default.' ****'Except aside for all the hype and statements for Aztek, he has shown nothing to be comparable to more traditional higher dimensional entities in DC. Read his respect thread; his best on-screen feat is 6-A and his best scaling feat is fighting Amazo and Green Lantern, which doesn't necessitate tier 2. Actual feats and showings are more important than just "lol 4-D," especially since we don't know what 4-D means because there is like 3 different interpretations of it in DC. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all evidence shows nothing comparable to other proclaimed higher dimensional beings.' ***Superman can withstand attacks from and damage the Lord of Time, who is four-dimensional. ****'The Lord of Time was not using 4-D energy on Superman. He is 4-D as in time travel and he took energy from the Sun in the future when it is red and fired that radiation on Superman, who was his blue energy form and could absorb all types of energy. That's why Supes even says "That may have worked in the past, but those conditions no longer apply"' ***'4-B' | Superman tanks attacks from Firestorm, ****who has the power of a Big Bang. | Brightest Day Vol 1 #10 November, 2010 ****'The panel states that he could trigger a new big bang when he is at emotional odds. This energy level is not his normal state. Those blast at Superman are not Big Bang level.' ***Superman has overwhelmed Kyle Rayner on multiple occasions, who defeated an aberration that was breaking down the laws of space and time and the universe, remaking it into a world devoid of cause and effect and reason, and these changes were reverted by Kyle Rayner. ***Superman overwhelmed Starman, who can defeat Darklord Maaldor, who can become a universe. ****'This is Silver Age Superman' ***After achieving the Theta State, Superman fought and overwhelmed Dominus, who created his own Phantom Zone. The Phantom Zone is described as a boundless dimensionless dimension between being and nothingness and it resides within the Sphere of the Gods, described multiple times as a Platonic, archetypal world, beyond the Bleed, which contains all dimensions, in which there are an infinite number of. The Phantom Zone exists at the same level as New Genesis, which is beyond the bounds of space and time. The Phantom Zone also exists at the same level as Heaven, which is beyond space and time and contains Platonic shapes. ****'Replication a dimension in a lower dimension does not make said person of a higher dimension.' *'Speed' **'MFTL+' | Superman tagged Professor Zoom and was stated to have speed who rivals his, ***and Professor Zoom ran to the 25th century can move through multiple temporal dimensions, was going to run to the past to change it during his fight with the Flash, and can freely move through the timestream. ***'Normal Travel speed and time travel speed are very different' **'At least FTL' | Superman reacts to Barry Allen and Wally West while they're running through time. | Final Crisis ***They ran at Superluminal velocity **Superman kept pace with Jay Garrick and Wally West while they were chasing the Reverse Flash to the past. **Superman tied with Barry Allen in a race while holding back, tagged a fusion of Wally West and Barry Allen, and chased down and subdued Barry Allen. **Wally West ran to the 853rd century, outran the Black Racer to the end of time and the universe until death no longer existed on a conceptual level, he ran back to his time through the timestream, he ran into the Speed Force and changed history, chased Professor Zoom throughout time alongside Barry Allen, accidentally ran a few weeks into the future alongside Barry Allen, raced himself a few moments into the future by running into the future, Wally outpaces light, raced on a four-dimensional track that weaves in an out of space-time to the extent where sometimes he's shielding his eyes from the Big Bang and sometimes he's squeezing through a pinprick as the universe implodes into nothing, outpaced instantaneous teleportation from the point of view of ultradimensional gamblers, utilises the source of the Speed Force to morph hyperdimensional gels while fighting a White Martian, and ran through time through the slipstream alongside Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. **Superman flew back in time to the Big Bang when fighting Brainiac 13. **Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time when fighting against the embodiment of his own Death. ***'This entire comic was a dream and mind manipulation.' **Superman chased Superboy into the future. **Superman outpaced reality-blitzing missiles that were sterilising the continuum. **Superman vibrates through to timestream to fly a man back in time. ***'This is Silver Age Superman' **Superman can move fast enough to outrun temporal distortions in the past, present, and future. **Superman should be relative to Superboy-Prime who was capable of momentarily outpacing Jenni Ognat when she was running through time. ***'The scans do not imply anything about them running through time. ' **Superman flew into Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time. ***'Traveling through Hyperspace is MFTL+, not immeasurable. It's like Star Wars.' **Post-Crisis Superman should be relative to Silver Age Superman, who flew back in time through the timestream until he flew through a timeless, placeless dimension, flew around Kryptonians until he whisked them into the timestream, flew into his past self colliding head-on to send themselves into separate points in time and then proceeded to fly into the 30th century, he tore through space and time with his speed before facing Jaxon, flew through the past one occasion with Batman, flew to 1971 to bring people some milk, spun faster than time to move into the past, crashes through the time barrier to take a man back to his time, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the boundaries of space and time with his speed, hurls Jimmy Olsen through the timestream multiple times, streaks through the barriers of time and space, breaking through time-space to fly into the past, carries a bunch of people through time, breaks through the dimensions of time and space to race time itself ending up centuries in the past, is sent through space and time during his fight with Ultimate Man and flies back; Silver Age Superman has flown through time so often that he's become immune to chronal distortions. ***'Why would they directly scale?' **Post-Crisis Superman is relative to Golden Age Superman, who flew back in time to chart meteorite courses, flew through the time barrier, flies back in time by flying around in a circle to fly into the time barrier, skips out on a man by flying into the future through the time barrier, bursts through the barriers of time to run back three centuries, flies around the earth while breaking through the space-time continuum to travel to the past, flies back to his own time after helping people, and hurls an ape into the past. ***'Golden Age Superman during Infinite Crisis is not as strong as he was before.' **Should be faster than Hal Jordan, who flew to the future without his lantern, and can travel a timeless distanceless barrier in an instant. ***'This is Pre-Crisis Hal Jordan' **Should be at least relative to Shazam, ***who travelled between atoms to go back to the Big Bang | Shazam!: The Monster Society of Evil Vol 1 #1 April, 2007 ****Unless he actually tanks the explosion, this is only time travel ***and can fight in a realm in between and beyond time and space. | Wonder Woman War of the Gods TPB Part 1 ****Being in the realm doesn't make one universal **Should be at least relative to Wonder Woman, who is fast enough to move into the Speed Force. ***'Not a Speed Feat' | Christina has used the scroll to open a magic portal to the Speed Force. After a brief monolog telling how she will pull Savitar out to screw up his plans of being one with the Force, she enters the portal. Jesse gets back the scroll, but only after they both have reached terminal velocity, a near "tipping point" speed where they both are a hair's breadth away from never coming back. Wonder Woman runs through the portal and Lassos Jesse in an attempt to slow her down and talk sense into her. | Wonder Woman Plus Vol 1 #1 January 1997 **Should be relative to Aquaman, who can swim in the Secret Sea, which transcends space and time. | Aquaman Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 #2003 May 2003 ***Swimming in the Secret Sea doesn't make him universal in the same way walking in Limbo doesn't make you universal. **Superman moved around in a realm of non-space and non-time. | Superman: Where Is Thy Sting? January 2001 ***'This was all a dream and mind manipulation. ' **Should be relative to Silver Age Barry Allen, who ran into the Source | Flash #175 (December 1967) ***'This is Silver Age Superman' **Superman flew from Apokolips to Earth. | Adventures of Superman Vol 2 #3 September 2013 ***'You literally can't fly from the Fourth World to Earth without a Boom Tube.' ***'Adventures of Superman' (volume 2) was an ongoing comic book featuring Superman stories by many different creative teams. All the stories are intended to be "continuity free" and do not fit into the canon of any of the mainstream DC universes (Prime Earth, New Earth, Earth-One or Earth-Two). **Superman flew out of the Source after Highfather said that it would be impossible to do. | Superman/Batman Vol 1 #42 ***'It is only with the help of High Father's Staff that Superman was able to leave the Source.'